Women's History in Ogden, Utah

SHANE:
Welcome out to the Ogden wire. We are joined this wonderful Women's History Month by two of the most prominent historians for Ogden history here. They happen to be women as well. I'm joined by Hope Eggett. She's the curator and director of the museums down at the Union Station. Thanks for joining us, Hope. And also Sarah Langsdon, Sarah is, tell me again the title?

SARAH:
Curator of Special Collections.

SHANE:
Curator of Special Collections at the Stewart Library at Weber State University. You guys sit atop a mountain of really cool stuff, really old, great documents and photos that you've allowed me to come poke through now and then. And every time I'm in either of your presence, I learn something new about Ogden and its history. And let's, let's just start real high level. Since we are Visit Ogden, the history is definitely a reason some people travel. Obviously, they want to see historical sites. What are the things that bubble to the top for the Layperson who's a history buff, what are the things about Ogden that come to mind? First, let's get that cleared out.

HOPE:
Transcontinental Railroad. I'll take that, was a question just straight off the bat. So here in Ogden, we were Junction City for the railroad. We were the stopping point for all trains going north, south, east and west, very early in our city's history, and that completely affected the way that we grew and interacted, and everything about Ogden's future development was because of those trains.

SHANE:
Right on. So clearly, that's, that's probably, I would agree, based 2019 when we had the sesquicentennial celebration to celebrate the joining of the transcontinental railroad.

SARAH:
Yeah, spent three days, probably 16-hour days down there with just hundreds of thousands of people. It was the train station, was how I imagined it during its heyday, where you just had people coming and going non-stop all day, and just the noise and in that room was so electrifying. I was like, I wish I had been able to view that in like, the 20s, 30s, 40s. I kind of got a little bit of glimpse of that in 2019.

SHANE:
Yeah, people just weren't dragging steamer trunks through the lobby.

SARAH:
They were not, yeah, that's about the only difference. Yes, you're right,pretty much.

HOPE:
And if people want a taste of it, the Big Boy is coming back to Ogden and on April 18 and 19th. So come see all the hullabaloo. It'll be back again.

SHANE:
The Big Boy always draws a crowd. I remember before the sesquicentennial was on its way out, or did an earlier tour and that the crowds were massive. And so yeah, Big Boy, tell us those dates again?

HOPE:
April 18 and 19th.

SHANE:
Okay, yeah, don't miss that one. So if you are a train buff or a history buff and you want to come, the best way to do it here in Ogden is what, obviously, you're going to probably go out to promontory point and you're going to see the reenactment out there at the National Monument. They'll bring the trains out. May is a great time for that, I think, right, they do. They bring the full costumed re-enactors and redo the whole driving of the spike, I believe. But outside of that, clearly Ogden is where you're also going to come to tell us what you can see down at Union Station, if you're a visitor to the area,

HOPE:
Oh, here at Union Station, we love to tell the history of Ogden through a variety of lenses. So of course, you have to visit the Utah State Railroad Museum to learn a little bit more about that train history, the people that built our community, truly, all of the people who worked on the railroad, who built businesses based off of the railroad traffic. And then you can get into a little bit of the people who thrived because of that connection to the railroad, people like the Brownings inventing firearms, some of the most prominent firearms in world history were built here in Ogden, and we're able to be connected to the outside world because of the train.

SHANE:
Hence, another museum at Union Station.

HOPE:
It is, it is, but we obviously don't have trains moving people around as much today, sadly. So you can also see our vintage car collection and how cars came to be so prominent in our city as well.

SHANE: right on. Okay, so that covers kind of the train the top of the what we're known for, historic, history wise, what would you say is next, Sarah, if you were to say?

SARAH 25th Street.

SHANE: 25th Street.

SARAH:
25th Street, I think is what brings a lot of yeah, they come for the station, and then they walk up the street. And having heard those stories of the rough and tumble town of Ogden and the you know, what do we call it? The grit? Ogdens Grit, people come and they love the history of 25th Street. You know that everything was out in the open, I always argue with people over the tunnels. That was probably my biggest thing that they argue with me about is that the tunnels. And I said, Ogden didn't hide anything.

SHANE: Yeah, they didn't need tunnels. They did it on the street.

SARAH: They did it on the street. I said, you know, I was like, I show them. I'm like, I have federal records of people who cut who came to Ogden because of things that were. Happening on the street. And they were like, You guys need to clean up the street. It's what did. One of them said that there were exposures everywhere, from bars to city cabs to city parks.

HOPE: Wasn’t it a pastor that ran for mayor on the principle of building the tunnels, though,

SARAH:
Yes, it was a pastor who ran in 1909 for mayor, and his whole platform was, if he became mayor, he would build tunnels under 25th street so that the good people of Ogden were not exposed to what was happening on the street. And I think that's where the rumor came from. This is as far back as we can trace it. But of course, he never won as mayor And so I was like, there's no record that tunnels were ever built.

SHANE:
So the notorious history of 25th street and we… it's often referred to as notorious 25th Street. Today. It was also known as Two-Bit Street. Obviously, two bits is a quarter. It was also said you could get anything for two bits on that street. I mean, from whiskey to women to wine to a meal to a room for a minute, whatever.

HOPE:
Yeah, watermelon to hide the alcohol.

SHANE:
Heard a lot of great stories. So 25th Street and a lot of that history. I mean, clearly it's still, still visible in many of the buildings that are standing there. And there's, there's historical markers on a lot of those buildings tell some of the significant history of it. Do we want to get to into that? That’s where all the cool stories are.

SARAH:
That is where all the cool stories are.

SHANE:
Well, then let's, talk a bit about that. Because there's the, there's the, the legend of the tunnels, there's the legend of Al Capone, which has kind of been debunked, but it's still kind of a cool urban legend to say, Oh, it was, was too wild for him, so he never came here, right? Some people like to say, Oh, he came here and it was too wild, so he left. Like, No, we like the rumor that he didn't even bother coming because he knew it was too wild.

SARAH:
Yeah, there you go. That's it. I can agree with that, that statement.

SHANE:
You saw the poster right behind your head: “A bit too rowdy for my taste.” So tell us some of the actual, more true, off the you know, lesser known stories that people should know as they wander up and down 25th Street. Oh, either of you can jump in.

SARAH:
Okay, where do we start?

HOPE:
I don't even know. There's so many directions we could take that in.

SARAH:
Well, I think, I mean, for me, lately, one of the things that I think most people don't realize is the diversity that Ogden has always had from the very beginning. People don't. People assume you're Ogden, Utah. You were founded by Mormons. You know, the LDS church ran the city, and that was who was here.

But in truth, because of the railroad, we had people from across the globe coming here, from the Chinese that came to help build the railroad. After they were excluded, the Japanese coming, the Italians, the Greeks, the Latinos, all different types of religions coming as well. And so I love to tell people Salt Lake's Japantown that's kind of seeing a little bit of a revival, because Salt Lake's trying to commemorate that. And I was like, Ogden had a Japan town.

HOPE:
I've heard 25th street called Little Jerusalem, Little Italy, Little Japan Town. There's so many overlapping people that were living and making a life on 25th Street.

SHANE:
Well, in essence, it is because you had freed slaves and Irish workers coming from the east to the west building. You had Chinese workers from the from the west building to the east. And basically, once it was connected, it was like…

SARAH:
You're on your own there.

SHANE:
That’s the end of the job. We don't need you to lay any more rail here now. And so a lot of them were just like, well, I guess this is home now, because those were so it was almost an instantaneous multicultural community from the beginning.

HOPE:
From the beginning, exactly. And even, like, after the railroad workers got here, they still needed to maintain those tracks. One of the dirty little secrets of the Transcontinental Railroad is that they were building so fast, getting that federal government funding, that they did a really terrible job. So they had to replace the entire thing the next year. But then with the with the Chinese Exclusion Act. They actually had to transition the labor and find people that were willing to maintain that track and keep it going. So they turned to a lot of Japanese labor, a lot of Mexican labor here in Ogden, which is why we've got such a big population of both Mexican-Americans and Japanese-Americans here in our city.

SHANE:
Awesome. So then you have all these different cultural influences. And I guess what's important to realize is that Union Station at that point was like the biggest airport in the country, more or less, and you had to lay over in it no matter where you were going, more or less. And so, and it wasn't a 50 minute layover where you grabbed a quick snack and got on. Sometimes it was a day or more waiting for your train to connect to keep going. So that really is what drove the economy of downtown.

SARAH:
Correct.

HOPE:
Yeah, absolutely. I've got a I've seen the journals of Jack London. They're up at the Utah State University Archives, but there is a paragraph from before he was famous. He was taking the hobo route across. Across the country as part of a labor movement. But he stopped in Ogden. He got off the freight train that he was stowed aboard, and he's like, “Oh, well, I have a while, so I want to go to Salt Lake, but first I'm going to go to this beautiful little town. It's got all the modern, most modern roads. And I'm going to go, you know, drink some alcohol, have some fun on 25th street before taking the train out of town.”

SHANE:
Clearly then. So because of that, a lot of prominent people had to have stopped and spent some time in Ogden. Who were some that popped to the top of your heads?

SARAH:
Eleanor Roosevelt, I mean, absolutely most presidents in the early time, lot of US presidents, were coming through because they would do what they called whistle stop tours. Thank you, yes. And so Ogden, obviously, was always a stop. So you had lots of presidents, you had lots of celebrities, because, of course, train travel was the way they would get around.

And so you would have, I, you know…

SHANE
[After a free-for-all of host and historians talking over one another as we all mused, it was determined that Ulysses S. Grant was the first sitting president to visit Ogden by train in 1875. And that every United States president during the rail travel era passed through Ogden with only three exceptions: Calvin Coolidge never made it here. Neither did Chester Arthur nor Grover Cleveland. Presidents started traveling by airplane with Franklin D. Roosevelt…now back to our conversation.]

SHANE:
Okay, yeah, so there's mean, there's rumors that Elvis,

I've heard the story, that one of the docents down at the museum, I remember, told me the story of his daughter was in the pep club up at Ogden High School and Elvis's train stopped for service. And he held it on purpose, and just so he could call his daughter and say, “get all the pep club down here to meet Elvis.”

SARAH:
Yeah, Elvis, Jack Dempsey, the prize winning fighter

SHANE:
He worked in Ogden for while, didn’t he?

SARAH:
Ross and Jack’s, he worked. He was, yeah, he was a waiter at Ross and Jack's diner before the war..

SHANE:
So what are some of the more bizarre stories that we that we should know about Ogden? I mean, there's the rumor. I mean, it's not rumors. It's pretty well confirmed that anything above the street was more or less a brothel on 25th Street.

SARAH:
Yes, anything with second floors. I always tell people that I said, “if it's got a second level, it even though they were, you know, deemed rooming houses, they were brothels,” right? So you had a lot of girls up and down the street, especially on the one in 200 block.

HOPE:
Well, and Ogden didn't do too well at prostitution or at prohibition, either, no, well, yeah, prostitution, prohibition, all happening on 25th Street. Yeah. But one of my favorites is you could go up buy your, you know, your vodka or whatever, during World War Two. And of course, the soldiers weren't supposed to have this. So then they would come down to the barber shop and pay a give him a quarter to slice their watermelon and half stuff there, their bottle of whatever in there, and carry it back onto the train.

SARAH:
Yeah, and he made so much money he was able to pay cash with for his first car. Just from doing that.

SHANE:
I was told, he charged a dime to use his stuff and that his wife had to reinforce the pockets of all his pants. And he would come home every day with so many dimes it would just rip the pockets out.

SARAH:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I love I mean, there's so many characters that have called 25th Street home.

SHANE:
Let’s talk a little bit about Belle London. We were talking about that before we started recording, because Belle London is a name I think every Ogdenite should be aware of. And why don't you just, both of you just kind of fill in the blanks and tell us the story of Belle London and why she's so prominent in this town.

HOPE:
I'll let you take the lead on her. I know she's your she's your leading lady.

SARAH:
She is, she is one of my, my girls. So Belle first appears in Ogden in about 1889 she appears in the newspaper being arrested for being a prostitute. That's the first thing that we see of Belle. And of course, “Belle” was her madam name. Her real name was Dora Topham. And so she comes to Ogden. She marries a gentleman, Mr. Topham, I can't right now think of his first name, and she decides that as a woman, she is going to do the only thing she knows how to do, and that is be a prostitute, and then a madam, as she sort of moves up in the world. And so she she becomes a madam. And you know the story is, is that she ran Ogden during the 1890s all the way up until 1908. That she, she was the one that politicians went to when they had an issue. The police all knew her. You know she, she was the queen of the underworld that the reverend who ran for mayor called her. He had, he did not like Belle at all. She was very successful.


SHANE:
She was so good at what she did, I believe, that Salt Lake City finally had to admit it had a vice problem and couldn't control it. But they knew that Belle could probably whip it into shape, Did they… is it true they hired her to come to Salt Lake and manage their red light district?

SARAH:
Yeah. So Salt Lake, in 1908 decided “we're going to move prostitution” to what they deemed “The Stockade,” which is where Gateway [mall] is currently. And so they said “we're going to just move all prostitution there. We're going to build a wall around it, and it's just going to be contained within the city.” And they they tapped Belle London to come and run it, even though Salt Lake had Madams, but they weren't as successful as Belle is. And she actually put in $300,000, this is 1908 money, of her own money into building this compound.

She started…it was the “Citizens Improvement” was the business that she started, and so she poured money into this, and she was like, “there's going to be a hospital here for the women, there's going to be a school for the children,” you know, “there's going to be one entrance and one exit so it can be monitored,” you know, and all of these different things. And so she ran that for about a year, and then the political climate in Salt Lake changed, and they said, “Oh no, we can't be this is basically state sponsored prostitution, and we can't do that.” And so they ordered it shut down. And so they closed it, and she was arrested for enticing a young woman into prostitution, okay? And she was found guilty of that charge, but it was overturned on appeal.

And so she moved back to Ogden late 1909 about 1910-ish, and she came back, and she's like, “I'm broke. I've spent all my money on this, you know, I can't continue to do what I was doing.” You know, she said she had to sell all of her jewelry in order to get enough money to move her and her, she had adopted two daughters by this point, and she moved them to San Francisco, where she then obviously had enough money to buy another hotel in San Francisco. And I love when she died. She was tragically killed by being squished between two cars in San Francisco. But when she died, there was a huge letter to the editor about her death and about how wonderful she was, that she billed herself as the greatest female reformer of all time.

SHANE:
And she can back that up from what a lot of the history I read like she was very, she made sure that the people who worked for her were educated, provided education, health care…

SARAH:
Health care. You know, I always joke. I was like, yeah, she bailed them out of jail because she needed them to keep working, but she didn't leave them there. If a young girl had come to her saying, I want to get into this line of work, she would purposely find other occupations for them to do. She was like, I never caused the downfall of any woman. She's like, I only hired women who were already in this line of work and made their life better because of it, you know. And she, I don't, I can't find records of how much money, you know, she took from, you know, as being the madam, but I imagine she, you know, still allowed them to have a fair wage so that they could still provide for themselves.

HOPE:
And she was well known for giving out aid and care for abandoned babies or for women down on their luck, she was known as a reformer, one of many women, maybe criminals, that that that provided a lot of services for people down on their luck in Ogden.

SHANE:
Wow. Amazing woman in Ogden history. Where was her place of business? Is it still on 25th Street?

SARAH:
It was on 25th Street. The building's no longer standing, and it is not…most people attribute the London Ice CreamPparlor building. And that was they just assumed, because she was called Belle London, that that was hers. Plus it would have been great, because there was a an amazing book written in 1908 that ice cream parlors were the downfall of modern society, because it was a place where you felt okay sending your young, unwed daughter to go have a date with a young gentleman, but that these became the the place for white slavery to happen. And I was like, Oh, I wish she had owned that, because that would have been a great tie to that story. But the London ice cream parlor was actually owned by Mark Lindsay, who was a gentleman who was an ice cream maker from London, who, when he came he was like, Oh, I'm going to continue this. But she owned most of the lower half of 25th Street, the North side where the cribs were. Yeah, so “Electric Alley.”

SHANE:
Tell us a little bit about Electric Alley. There's still remnants of that.

SARAH:
There's still remnants of electric alley. I mean, electric galley was basically the north side of 25th Street, behind the buildings between 25th and 24th and it was a street that was two… trying to think of how… so there was a row of what they called cribs, which were basically one room houses that had a bathroom and a bedroom, and this is where the girls were and provided their services. And so she owned most of that. There were about 25 up and down that part of the street, just behind the main building.

SHANE:
So staying on that theme, what do we know about Rose Davie? That's the name that I hear pop up a lot in Ogden. Do we want to talk about Rose at all?

SARAH:
I always love to talk about Rose. Rose is another one of my girls, so Rose is the other most prominent madam in Ogden. Rose appears in the 1930s in Ogden. We know a little bit about her background. She'd come from the Midwest. Her family had moved here, and it was her and her sister, birdie, and they went on to 25th Street and were arrested in the 40s for prostitution.

By the mid 40s, Rose had met her husband, William Davie, and they got married. William, he was a gambler. He owned lots of businesses, him and so him and Rose, they bought the second floor of 205 25th Street. She's now, it's now, Alleged, and so the bottom was a nice soda parlor. And then she rented and ended up buying out the second floor.

So you'd go up the floor and there was, you know, you can just imagine, you know, that steel-plated door with the slide window that you would have to knock and know the secret password, you would walk in. And Rose loved animal print and the color pink. Okay, those were her two favorite things. So each room was decked out in a different animal print. So you'd have, like, the zebra room, the tiger room, the you know, and so you would go up and find your girl and go into the rooms.

She had a she owned a pink Cadillac that she drove around town and a pet ocelot. Everyone knew who she was. Like, I've talked to gentlemen who worked at LR Samuels, which was a local women's clothing store, and they said we knew anytime we got anything pink in or animal print, we had to call Rose. And she would be like, "Yep, I want that send it over.”

And so her and her husband ran the Rose Rooms for about a decade, making a lot of money. I mean, they were making about 20 to $30,000 a month off of their businesses. So they had the Rose Rooms, the Zebra Club on 25th Street. And then my all time favorite name for a club, the Benevolent Hand Club that was in Farmington. So it wasn't even Ogden. It was in Farmington. And people would say you always knew when there was a night at the benevolent hand club, because you could not get a taxi anywhere from Ogden to Salt Lake, because they were all there. They were all bringing people there. And so, you know, she, she ran that business, she had hidden microphones in each of the rooms to make sure that she said it was to make sure that the girls were okay.

SHANE:
Hmmm,it wasn't to possibly get any kind of kompromat, or, you know, blackmail…

SARAH:
Blackmail material, or, you know, making sure that they weren't stiffing her on the money that was actually agreed upon. But her and her husband were finally arrested. They were arrested multiple times for prostitution, “running a house of ill repute,” as they called it, but they were finally arrested and convicted on tax evasion.

SHANE:
Wow. It's kind of like the Al Capone thing.

SARAH:
And so her husband, Bill was sent to the Salt Lake or Utah State Prison. She actually got sent to Vermont. They each served one year.

SHANE:
That’s it.

SARAH:
That’s it for tax evasion. Were let out and then they met back up in Las Vegas. They never came back to Utah, back to Ogden. They never came back to Ogden. They met up in Las Vegas. Some things happened. I don’t know quite what happened? All I know is she called her Ogden lawyer to come down and bail her out, and then she ended up going to Mexico and lived down there, and it's because her mom had an affinity for Mexico and had actually written a book about Mexico.

SHANE:
And do we know when, when Rose met her end? Of was it in Mexico?

SARAH:
It was in Mexico in the 70s. And her sister, Birdie, lived in Ogden. She just passed away probably about a decade ago, but she had lived in Ogden the entire time, and I had been told by the family that her sister had scrapbooks of everything that happened at the Rose Rooms, but that the husband hated the family business and was going to just and would destroy them once she died. So I'm guessing that they have been destroyed because I've never seen them.

SHANE:
Oh, that's got to kill an archivist like you.

SARAH:
Oh, it does. I was like, I would have loved to see you know… because I spent a decade looking for photos of Rose, and finally was able to find her mug shots from the family of the vice cop who actually had arrested her. He had kept her mug shot Bill's mug shot, Addie, who was their African American maid, and several of the girls that were arrested with her in the 50s.

SHANE:
Dang well when we're speaking women's history in Ogden, one more name that really comes to mind… And let's talk about the Porters and Waiters club, because I think that's a significant one who wants to, who wants to tell that story a little bit?

HOPE:
Oh, I mean, I love Anna Belle, but I feel like Sarah's the right person.

SHANE:
I think it's imperative that as we make a segue, to say Anna Belle Weakley, as far as we know, not a not a prostitute or a madam. Let’s just draw that line right now.

SARAH:
She was not. She was not Anna Belle was a businesswoman.

SHANE:
Tell us alittle bit about Anna Belle Weakley, and what she made out of the Porters and Waiters Club and how significant that was downtown.

SARAH:
Yeah, so Anna Belle came from the south. She actually moved to Ogden during the war. Her first husband was in the military and had been stationed at Hill Air Force Base. So she came to Utah. Was living, you know, in the Layton area, was doing a fun a fundraising drive where she met Billy Weakley. Billy had lived in Ogden since, I think the earliest I can track Billy is 1912 so he had been in Ogden a good 30 years before. So he was a little bit older than Anna and and they met and fell in love, and so she divorced her husband and married Billy, and went to the Porters and Waiters Club. And at that point, the Porters and Waiters Club was not a place for women, right? It was basically a boys club. You know, she's like it was a place for… because most people don't realize Ogden was segregated. And so African Americans were not allowed anywhere but on the south side of the street.

HOPE:
Well, and the name of the club, Porters and Waiters. It was this club was built to help the railroad workers, the railroad porters, railroad waiters, that were largely African American men at that time.

SARAH:
So it gave them a place to have a meal and rest before their next shift. And so she comes in, and she's like, “this is not a place for women.” And she's like, "we need to change that.” And so she, I always joke, I said she classed up the joint, right? So she turned it into a place where people would want to be, and it was still provided housing for the porters and waiters.

But at this point, Joe McQueen had come into Ogden, so Joe came in the 40s as well. He was a red cap Porter for the railroad, but he had stopped in Ogden as a musician, got into a fight with his bandmates, was basically left in Ogden, and he decided to call it home. So he was at the porters and waiters club, and happened to go down to the basement with Anna Belle. And he was like, “this would make an amazing jazz club. We should turn it into that.” And she was like, “let's do it.”

And so Anna Belle, Billy, and Joe turned the Porters and Waiters into not only, you know, rooming house, but also a jazz club. And so anytime the jazz greats came through Ogden on the train, Duke Ellington, BB King, Louis Armstrong… they would call because they knew Joe. They knew Joe was here. They would call him. They'd be like, “Hey, we got some hours to kill. Let's jam,” and so they would open up the club. Joe would tell me, he's like, it would be three o'clock in the morning. And he'd be like, “we'd open up the club and people would be there." And I love that it was actually the first desegregated club, because you had people of all types wanting to come in and listen to that music.

SHANE:
Well, it's, from what I'm told, it's a lot like today, how kind of the college kids drive everything. And it was college kids wanted to hear jazz, and the only place they could hear jazz was the Porter and Waiters and Joe said a lot of other places used to try to hire him because they knew he could draw a crowd. They tried to hire him in other places around town, and he would say, “No, I'm not gonna play there because my friends can't come.” And so basically, he's given a lot of credit for the desegregation of Ogden. It's like, Well, okay, we'll start breaking our rules, because we got to get Joe over here. Yeah, that's how it kind of all came tumbling down here in Ogden.

SARAH:
So Annabelle ran that. Billy passed away in the 50s. She ran the club for a little bit, but then was like, I can't do this. And so actually turned it into a restaurant. And during that time, she had decided to get her social work degree because she had grown up and lived with alcoholics, and was like, I want to try and help and give back. And so when there was a tragic fire in her restaurant that burned the building down, so that's why the building doesn't exist anymore. She, at that point, decided, I'm not going to be in this business anymore, and moved to Salt Lake and basically focused on doing social work.

HOPE:
She worked in the prison. She was working with addicts and alcoholics…

SARAH:
Until she tragically passed away.

SHANE:
Well, I know we're short on time, and I know we've, we've covered, I wanted to cover a lot of these are the most amazing for Women's History Month. I wanted to talk about some of those specific stories the ogdenites just need to know about. They're just part of our DNA, and they it's, it's still reflected in the way we live now. I think they left an imprint on us.

So Hope, obviously, you mentioned the Big Boy coming back. If you're a train fan, or even if you're not, come down check out. You've never seen anything like it in your life. If you haven't seen the Big Boy…April 18 and 19th at Union Station. Anything else we need to know about from the archives at Weber State?

SARAH:
We are currently… our newest exhibit is “More than Mormon Muffins: Food and Culture in Northern Utah.” It's all about farm to table and the different types of restaurants, and, you know, all the businesses involved in food here. We’re collecting recipes. We're wanting to build an Ogden recipe book so we'll be at Heritage Fest.

HOPE:
It's true, you can come sample some of these recipes from Ogden's past at Heritage Festival on May 9.

SHANE:
Okay, we may have you back just to talk about Heritage Festival before we get there then, well, thank you guys for joining us. I appreciate your time.

SARAH:
Thank you.